Windows 10 Mobile review: Windows on phones gets rebooted. Again.

This is the smartphone platform Microsoft has wanted to build for a long time.

Read the whole story

 

[team_negative1]

melgross[/url]":6r5nitgr]The "bold" new GUI for Win 7 was the GUI from the Zune HD, elaborated for the phone. They really had no choice, as they needed a new GUI really fast, and there wasn't enough time to start from scratch.

When we can run x86 apps on a Windows phone, as is, then we'll have Windows Everywhere. But not today. If we see the supposed Surface Phone, that may contain an Atom-like CPU. But I still can't imagine running a real Desktop app on a small phone screen, as is. Many concessions will need to be made, if any developer wants to bother at all.

I wish them good luck with this though.

It was done years ago with a fujitsu phone that ran windows 7.

http://gizmodo.com/5823836/horrible-ide ... desktop-os

Yeah it was smaller, and the battery didn't last long. But it was there.
---------------------
Size: 125 × 61 × 19.8 mm (19.8 mm at thickest point)
Weight: 218 g (with battery pack)
Continuous Standby Time: ~600 hours in FOMA 3G
Continuous Talk Time:
~370 minutes in FOMA 3G voice mode
~170 minutes in videophone mode
Display: ~4" wide SVGA touchscreen (1024 × 600 resolution)
Camera: (back side) 5.1 megapixel effective resolution, CMOS sensor
(inside) 0.32 megapixel effective resolution, CMOS sensor (0.17 megapixel in Windows® 7 mode)
Color: Navy Black

Windows® 7 mode

OS: Windows® 7 Home Premium 32 bit Full Version (with SP1)
CPU: Intel® Atom™ Z600 processor (supports HT technology) (1.20GHz)(4)
Main memory: Comes standard with 1GB/max 1GB (LPDDR400)
SS ~32 GB (eMMC)
Wireless LAN: IEEE802.11b/g/n (communications speed: up to 65Mbps)(5)
Windows® 7 battery life: ~2 hours(6) in Windows® 7 mode


There was even a dock for it:
---------------------------------------

Unit Description :
- Docomo F-01 Cradle Docking station
- This was made and designed to be used with the Fujitsu F-07C LooX
- Docking station has 4 USB ports and also 1 HDMI port
- Just place your Fujitsu F-07C into the docking station, then plug in your PC keyboard / mouse / Monitor / headset etc !

 

[Hydrargyrum]

Griffinhart[/url]":1gat0k57]

I want to believe, but I don't think Continuum will pan out like Microsoft is hoping it will. The idea of a unified machine is kind of like the idea of pen computing or VR: it's something that technology people find very appealing, but not something that regular users will be willing to pony up for until it's seamless and doesn't require someone to carry around or pair up with fiddly bits.

Continuum has massive potential. Not so much for Windows 10 mobile, but, if MS were to make a x86 based "Surface Phone," it would be a killer bit of hardware.

Today, It's actually not too bad, but there are too many limitations. No windowed apps, you can't use the desktop as a file location [...]

Windowed apps don't make sense on tiny mobile screens, in my opinion. You need a reasonable sized monitor for arbitrary-size windowing to be really useful, and you need access to high-precision input hardware to manipulate windows. I think tiled views (screen splitting) are the correct way to do multi-tasking on small screens and touch devices.

I'm also ok with not using the desktop as the file manager. I don't even think that access to the root underlying OS file system (Program Files, Windows, etc) should be necessary for non-developers. Just give the users some kind of folder-based file system which can be used to organise files according to the user's preferred scheme, rather than tying file storage to separate buckets inside each app. The user file manager should also have decent APIs for the various cloud synch/storage services to integrate in a consistent, centralised way. But file management is a major part of the functionality of any OS with pretensions to productivity - consider the constant complaints about Finder in OS X reviews as evidence of this.

Speaking of Apple and awful file management, the iOS paradigm, where files are siloed by app, and each productivity app (Word, Excel, GoodReader, PDF Expert, photo editing tools, ad infinitum) has to re-invent the UI for folder based filing & navigation, or copy files back and forth to iCloud/Dropbox/OneDrive/whatever, is terrible. It's definitely my least favourite thing about iOS. I really hate that if I want to open a particular PDF in different apps, I end up with multiple copies of the PDF scattered across the device.

 

[co-lee]

BigGuy58[/url]":2o2anisy]What most reviewers, who look at the phone from a consumer standpoint, miss, is that MS has a major secret weapon for mobile. The ENTERPRISE Business Customer.

First:
What MS has that neither Apple or Android has is the robust and mature backend management and deployment tools that a large enterprise is looking for. This is part of their desktop lock-in.

If you are a large brokerage house, Bank, the Federal Government, Military or other business that needs to have a high level of security and manageability and monitoring of your user's devices MS has it for you.

A combination of Active Directory, (which many 3rd parties have done even more value add on top of), MS System Center, Windows Update (which an enterprise can have their own implementation of (WSUS)

2nd:
Many enterprises want to deploy their own internal business applications, for desktops, tablets, and phones.
With the Universal Apps, now they will be able to do that to all 3 platforms, vs having to develop for the desktop, tablet, and separately for IOS or android.
As an enterprise they can mandate and supply what business phone their employees use.
They care about the security and cost efficiency of their organization, not if their are consumer applications.

This will create a base of buyers for the Windows phones, many times in bulk, that will drive hardware development, and this user base, will eventually drive the consumer applications

At some point the secret weapon had to start mattering or its just a secret....

 

[axfelix]

Well, I'm glad other people in this thread have already chimed in to say "I've been hanging onto a 920/925 for long enough already" and "if only Hangouts worked" and "if only they shipped that Android middleware layer like they said they would" and "they sure have cluttered up the UI since the 8.x releases," because I'm not sure I have anything left.

 

[KarmaPoints]

I just dont get it, Ballmer spent the better part of his career killing mobile at Microsoft yet here they are still poking away at it. I remember hitting the official Windows Mobile forum back in the day when I was sporting WM6 on HTCs first touch screen phone. iPhone had been released 6 months earlier and I tried to convey everything Apple got right with their UI and how impossible to use WM was. They would hear nothing of it, I was attacked and ridiculed. They are reaping what they deserve IMHO.

Excellent and thorough review btw

 

[snappycow]

jdale[/url]":64swpyxj]

In most cases, it's also a better operating system than Windows Phone 8.1.

Somehow I was surprised to read this, because it was not the feeling I got from the rest of the review.

I have a Lumia 1020 and a Surface 3, but Microsoft has been really disappointing me of late. (The daily popups on my computer trying to get me to upgrade to Windows 10 are not helping. WTF?)

Go to Windows Update > Installed Updates. Remove kb3035583 and hide it, that should fix the taskbar icon that prompts you to get Windows 10.

Sometimes it unhides itself, so you need to look out for the bugger when doing Windows updates.

 

[team_negative1]

This is all well and good for phones that already have Windows 10 Mobile, but most don't. Many Windows Phone 8/8.1 devices will be upgradable to Windows 10 Mobile. But we don't know which and we don't know when. This upgrade will probably have the usual carrier interference and will probably require some level of OEM involvement, too. Microsoft originally planned to start rolling out Windows 10 Mobile to Phone 8.1 devices this month, but this has now slipped until next year. When, exactly, is anyone's guess.

since november, they have published a list of which phones are getting it..

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... p%24%24%24


Batch 1 (deviceUpgradeState = 1)

XDE
Phi
Money Penny
HTC One® (M8) for Windows
Lumia 1520
Lumia 830
Lumia 930
Microsoft Lumia 640 Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 640 Dual SIM DTV
Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 640 XL
Microsoft Lumia 640 XL Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 640 XL LTE
Microsoft Lumia 640 XL LTE Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 950 XL

Batch 2 (deviceUpgradeState = 2):

Lumia 1020
Lumia 1320
Lumia 520
Lumia 525
Lumia 526
Lumia 620
Lumia 625
Lumia 630
Lumia 630 Dual Sim
Lumia 720
Lumia 822
Lumia 920
Lumia 925
Lumia 928
Lumia ICON

Never (deviceUpgradeState = 3)

4.7
40 Cesium
7 Mozart, 7 Mozart T8698, 7 Pro T7576, 7 Trophy, 7 Trophy T8686
Allegro
Allview Impera I, Allview Impera M, ALLVIEW-IMPERA_S
Alpha Luxe, Alpha Neon, Alpha Style, Alpha View
Andi4L Pulse
Ascend [UMTS AUS/LA, C3], [UMTS+CDMA China, C2], [UMTS+CDMA, C1], Ascend H887L, Ascend W2
ATIV Odyssey, ATIV S, ATIV S Neo, ATIV SE
Billy 4, Billy 4.7
BP30
Bush
Canvas Win 092, CANVAS Win 121
Dream W473
E8
FPT Win
FZ-E1
Go-W10
Griffe W1
GT-I8350, GT-I8350T, GT-S7530, GT-S7530E, GT-S7530L
Haden
Harley Davidson
HD7, HD7 T9292
Insignia 500 Win
IQ400W, IQ500W
Iris Win 1
IS12T
Ixion W5
L930i
Lancet
LG-C900, LG-C900B, LG-C900k, LG-E900, LG-E900h, LG-E906
Liquid M220
Lumia 505, Lumia 510, Lumia 530, Lumia 530 Dual Sim, Lumia 610, Lumia 610 NFC, Lumia 710, Lumia 800, Lumia 810, Lumia 820, Lumia 900
Madosma
McLaren(codename)
MegaFon SP-W1
Mimosa
Minuet
MultiPhone 8400 Duo, MultiPhone 8500 Duo
MWP-47, MWP6885, mwp6985
NANA E260T
Noir W1
Nokia 510, Nokia 610, Nokia 610C, Nokia 710, Nokia 800, Nokia 800C, Nokia 900
Nova WIndows
Omnia W
OMNIA7
ONE TOUCH 5040X
Onix 4
PI39100, PI86100, Q8150W
Radar, Radar 4G, Radar C110e
Radiant
S606
SGH-i667, SGH-i677, SGH-i917, SGH-i917., SGH-i917R, SGH-i937
Soul 2
SP4
Storm W408, Storm W510
T7575, T8697, T8788, T9295, T9296
Tania
Test Code
TFG M1010
Thunder 340W, Thunder 450W
TITAN X310e
Titanium Wind W4
Ultimate
USCCHTC-PC93100, USCCN859
V965W
Venue Pro
W1
W10
Win 400, Win HD, Win HD LTE, Win JR, Win Jr LTE, Win Q900S, WIN8258
Windows Phone – Internet 7, Windows Phone 8S HTC, Windows Phone 8X HTC, Windows Phone 8XT HTC
WinJoy, WinPhone 4.7 HD, WinWin
WPK1
X310e

Limited Set (deviceUpgradeState = 4)

Lumia 635
Lumia 636
Lumia 638
Lumia 730 Dual SIM
Lumia 735
Microsoft Lumia 430
Microsoft Lumia 435
Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 435 Dual SIM DTV
Microsoft Lumia 532
Microsoft Lumia 532 Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 532 Dual SIM DTV
Microsoft Lumia 535
Microsoft Lumia 535 Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 540 Dual SIM
Microsoft Lumia 735

 

[mrnomnoms]

nehinks[/url]":qf0fgtbl]

Stone[/url]":qf0fgtbl]I'd love to love Windows mobile, but it's always been several steps away from being functional enough for me to replace Android or iOS.

The app gap is easily the most frustrating thing about it. Native google apps are the thing I've missed most when using it.

I love the tile-based widget look of it. The low-spec Lumia 520 I used to own ran remarkably well despite its meager hardware. It felt like it had potential.

Unfortunately, Windows Mobile will die slowly, because of the adoption problem it looks like it will never overcome.

That's actually one of the more annoying things - how badly Google treats Windows mobile. They seem to have a vendetta against them much more than their actual competition iOS. At this point it seems kind of petty to be honest.

I like how solid their low/mid range phones have been - if only they were more supported. I was thinking of picking up a Tmobile 640 to see how good their coverage is around here, but they're not available any more.

It is difficult not to feel as though this is the universe kicking Microsoft in the proverbial after years of behaving like a pack of assholes and now they're experiencing what they put the industry through for almost two decades. If you think Microsoft has changed then think again - check out Microsoft Office for Mac and then tell me that Microsoft really does take seriously the fact that they're no longer the dominant force in the IT sector. After how many years of declining market share and loss in brand respect they still haven't changed their behaviour - they're still treating non-Microsoft platforms as shitty second class citizens that they'd prefer ignoring than actually doing the required investment hence I'm having difficulty feeling sorry because Google won't bend over and accommodate Microsoft's requests. If Microsoft cares they first of all would be making sure that at the very least that Outlook for Mac would work with their consumer facing Outlook.com service but alas they couldn't even be bothered providing feature parity for something that is present in the Windows version but not available on the Mac version (oh, and for any idiots who think that I'm saying it is the sole reason - I used the Outlook issue an example of a larger cultural problem in Microsoft).

People have long memories and it has come back to bite Microsoft; Playstation 4 is well and truly trouncing the Xbox one, PC gaming is becoming a niche, the phone market has been lost to Android and iOS, enterprise customers are increasingly finding end users are not only BYOD their smartphones but also their laptops which is where Apple has gained market share with Chrome Books coming up from the bottom. That doesn't even touch the mindshare of the new up and coming businesses where although Microsoft is transitioning existing customers over to Office 365 which looks great for numbers you'll increasingly find that young start ups that are untied from the burden of Microsoft legacy simply aren't going for Microsoft solutions but instead gravitate towards Amazon and Google - it reminds me of the criticism of Sun Microsystems years ago where it wasn't gaining new customers but rather just milking what they already had and even then they were gradually losing those customers. The mindshare is even more troubling where there is a move to open source and open standards based technologies where the old game of 'roping them in with ease of use, fuck them over with the proprietary nature of the technology' simply isn't working with this generation.

How is this relevant to the topic being discussed? because Windows 10 Mobile is a symptom of a larger problem that exists for Microsoft and to look at Windows 10 Mobile in isolation rather than part of a larger trend is to ignore how this fits into the larger move away from Microsoft by the IT sector. Microsoft unfortunately still haven't woken up to that new reality - and I doubt they ever will when there is an echo chamber and very few Microsoft employees are willing to self critical. Heck, most endemic of this is 'the new old thing' blog where the author goes out of his way to excuse shitty UI maintenance rather than accepting that it is something that needs to be address then actually address it.

 

[Nick Walton]

I liked the review and agree that Windows 10 Mobile seems to be an upgrade to the platform. However, from an overall experience it feels, as the author said, messy and inconsistent. I think the key aspect of this is the conflict against the established design language of Windows Phone by the Hamburger menu and related fiddly UI adoptions from Android.

To me there are some significant backward steps in Windows 10 Mobile:
1. The OS has become messy, noisy, fiddly, and cluttered without significant improvements in utility, so that it actually feels slow, unfluid, less effortless to navigate - unclear. Just plain tiresome with tiny thin icons and text that forces the user to expend concentration to confirm what they are looking at before getting to do what it is they actually want to achieve.

Plus, the smaller icons have smaller haptic areas and are so damn fiddly that it's frustrating. I have a high level of dexterity for input systems and I get pissed off at the backwards step Microsoft has forced on us for the sake of "being more like Android and IOS. The OS feels just so much more in your face than Windows Phone 8, and that isn't a good thing. Windows Phone 8 enabled the user to just do it and got out of the way. Windows 10 Mobile doesn't, for the most part.

2. Two apps have taken a major step backwards in usability and clarity: the camera app, and Outlook Mobile. In fact, they are so bad and the great innovations found in their Windows Phone versions hacked out that it is like the old team was fired and IOS developers hired.

a) The Camera app in Windows Phone 8 was sublimely easy to use, which made it possible to use with one hand in some very awkward positions. This was primarily due to a very simple and innovative idea - one touch image capture. Touch the screen anywhere to focus, meter, and take the shot. You didn't have to press once on the screen then move your finger back toward your palm to then press the capture button. Just press the screen and get the shot. Fast and effortless, enabling you to focus on the scene rather than fiddly with the controls.

b) The Outlook app in Windows Phone 8 was a little bit simpler. Lets face it, not much has really changed in the feature list for the new Windows 10 Mobile Outlook app that makes such a big difference in the overall experience. However, something very significant has changed for the worse, which has made dealing with email so much more frustrating: Microsoft has removed all ability to open multiple emails and switch between them and the mail app to review, copy and paste across conversations and back through our email history.

The new client has taken a turn for the worse and copied IOS to restrict the user to a single open email. Need to check something or review something in another email? Forget it. This new email client is for casual email use only. Seems very, very bizarre when considering Continuum which has lofty aims of bringing a desktop experience to Mobile. Lets build a wonderfully capable and technologically superior OS but make email (a core proficiency for Microsoft) a lesser experience.

This is the same experience for the Desktop version.

These and other seemingly irrational UI and UX subversions don't make sense, until you factor in non-UI and non-UX influences, like monetisation. Why Microsoft would undermine the multi-tasking capability of a core product, like email, only makes sense if they plan on introducing paid subscription for Office Outlook to Windows 10 Desktop and Mobile for non-casual users, like me and most technology focused users.

However, this does not explain why Microsoft have destroyed the great experience of the camera app.

These two apps add to an overall unsatisfactory experience on Windows 10 Mobile. The dissatisfaction and frustration I have has not subsided as I grow more familiar with the new OS. This is because bad design choices (from IOS and Android) are displacing great design choices that were innovated from what seemed to truly be a first principles approach.

Windows 10 Mobile is full of analogies to Android and IOS and it detracts from the previously known joys of using Windows Phone 8.

 

[David T-Rex]

I love Windows Phone and have been with it since Version 7.
The big issue is the constant reboots. Hopefully this will be the last total reboot now they have a similar code base and the big Windows 10.

Android and iOS have had time to refine and evolve as well as add new features, instead of doing this MS has had to write everything from scratch. While other developers have been working to improve things we are reinventing the wheel again, its not the best place to be in but in fairness I do see the reasoning behind it.

I would consider this as Version 1 of Windows 10 Mobile that is backwards compatible.

 

[Deleted member 250988]

I love my 930 (with 8.1), still too man regressions in 10 for me to update it.

The UI is a dream, the build quality is stellar and the app gap a non issue for me. I don;t need a million apps, I just need 9-10 good ones for the tasks at hand. And I found those on WP with only one issue: chromecast.

And I blame that missing support completely on Google', I'm not going to reward them for being d*cks by buying into their infrastructure over a single feature. I'll just get a miracast dongle for my TV instead.

 

[pokamize]

Today you cannot repair or resell a lot of stuff which used to have no problem with that.

For example, John Deere claims it still owns the tractor you thought you bought from it:

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

So, you no more own what you pay for.

That's why is a really bad idea to let a single company run all the software on all your devices. That's the way to communism. You will never again own anything.


That's the reason for which I will never let Microsoft run my phones and other stuff on my house. I don't want MS to claim ownership rights to my fridge and microwave oven.

I do not want to walk into a store and find that everything is run by software monopolized by the same company.

 

[KellenS]

They really need a better first time use experience around this half-a-screen feature. I thought this was a bug with auto-rotation until reading this article. Now I see it's caused by holding the start button. Could they not at least have a different haptic-feedback pattern so you get an indication that you've triggered something?

 

[Nick Walton]

KellenS[/url]":3fj56ezg]They really need a better first time use experience around this half-a-screen feature. I thought this was a bug with auto-rotation until reading this article. Now I see it's caused by holding the start button. Could they not at least have a different haptic-feedback pattern so you get an indication that you've triggered something?

They just need to do the UI right, like not adopt the Hamburger menu and keep doing what worked in WP8.1. Honestly, there are better ways to design the UI, if only they went back to first principles, like they seemed to have done with WP8. As the author said, the three ellipses worked well. Having all of the touch haptics happen close to the hand.

As Elon Musk has often said about innovation: taking a first principles approach yields deeper innovations and better designs. Many design decisions in Windows 10 Mobile seem to either be by analogy (comparison with something else) or from non-UI and non-UX influences (like marketing and monetisation).

Windows 10 is full of monetisation decisions that impact usability. It takes more effort and intent to design for both (like making things very simple yet still sophisticated).

 

[KellenS]

I'd be really interested in knowing where things went wrong with Astoria. When I first saw apps designed using hamburger buttons and moving away from pivots and panoramas I was fairly upset. The design of WP7-8.1 was a key differentiator for most WP customers. With WM 10 those key design elements got tossed, and all apps needed to be updated to look more like competitors products. One justification was so that they would be 'familiar' to users of those platforms.

At the time, another justification was that Astoria was coming, and the platform needed consistency across UWP apps and Android apps. To a certain extent that made sense, and Astoria had the power to make WP relevant to a large number of consumers. Now some time before release Astoria is completely cut and it's too late to change the WM 10 design.

This seems to be the common pattern with MS. Come up with some strategic decisions and design your platform around them. Then just before release change all the premises that you had at the start of the project, release it to consumers and see if they notice. There's so many examples now: Xbox One Internet requirements, Xbox One Kinect requirements, OneDrive storage space, the Nokia acquisition, Windows RT (ie the Arm version, which Peter actually forgot about in his PC builds section), the Search/Charms in Win 8/Win 8.1, the 6+ billion spent on aQuantive. The list goes on and on of projects that start ambitiously and then are victims of changes in strategic direction + reorgs.

 

[KellenS]

I also have to say I'm fairly disappointed with two features I hoped would get better on the WM platform. OneDrive and Cortana are both arguably worse in WM 10 than they were in WP 8.1.

 

[jdale]

snappycow[/url]":294h2u4s]

jdale[/url]":294h2u4s]

In most cases, it's also a better operating system than Windows Phone 8.1.

Somehow I was surprised to read this, because it was not the feeling I got from the rest of the review.

I have a Lumia 1020 and a Surface 3, but Microsoft has been really disappointing me of late. (The daily popups on my computer trying to get me to upgrade to Windows 10 are not helping. WTF?)

Go to Windows Update > Installed Updates. Remove kb3035583 and hide it, that should fix the taskbar icon that prompts you to get Windows 10.

Sometimes it unhides itself, so you need to look out for the bugger when doing Windows updates.

Thanks, did not actually work though, even after rebooting. I also killed the gwx.exe process and removed its many entries from the task scheduler, that's held for a few days but I think WTF is still the appropriate response.

 

[Nick Walton]

KellenS[/url]":q999bh6d]The design of WP7-8.1 was a key differentiator for most WP customers.

This.

 

[psarhjinian]

HalenGM[/url]":3gr1x026]

Hercules[/url]":3gr1x026]I've been noticing at the least, that Windows 10 apps are now coming to fruition... a bunch have been released as universal apps because while the mobile platform may be mediocre, the Windows on the desktop, as well as Windows on the tablet strategy is going quite well. There's a new Netflix app, my USAA banking app works, and a whole bunch of others. Notably absent are YouTube and Snapchat. The former would be nice, and really goes to the whole Google vs Microsoft problems however, Snapchat I still don't understand for the life of me.

That said, I think mobile is going to be the last to catch on, but the benefits are rather clear. Universal apps are picking up steam. Development on Windows has always been pretty straightforward, with a lot of tools and accessibility for developers. And in the end, it will help meet that app gap which exists.

The problem of course, is that Windows Mobile 10 is a cluttered mess, and needs a LOT of updates. They've lost a lot of distinctive styling (ugh hamburger menus?), as well as integrations to other things like messaging or "people" through the hubs concept. I think those need a revisitation.

Otherwise, I'm feeling pretty positive about Windows Mobile in general; if Microsoft can launch a "Surface Phone" that is actually you know -- GOOD -- then I might be on the bandwagon again. I left Windows Phone with the Lumia 920 (and I loved it at the time, despite the app problem) to get an iPhone because there were no worthy upgrades. However I think that there's a good chance, if MS can persuade developers to write the apps (specially YouTube and Snapchat which seem to be important), then the Windows 10 strategy will have worked.

It's pretty well known that the CEO of Snapchat hates Microsoft with some sort of personal vendetta.

Interestingly, I had that same feeling about Reed Hastings (Netflix) and BlackBerry: there seems to be an active resistance to having a BB10 Netflix client. It's even marked as specifically incompatible in the Amazon App Store for BB10, even though it runs absolutely without issue if you sideload it.

 

[vnicolici]

HalenGM[/url]":f0il9fw2]

DrPizza[/url]":f0il9fw2]

Entegy[/url]":f0il9fw2]Why do reviewers keep saying "rebooted"? Since when are major upgrades a reboot? WP8 devices are getting this upgrade (eventually), apps work, etc.

WP7 to WP8. I understand. WP8 to 10? It's not a reboot, it's an upgrade.

It scraps every built-in app, and as such, anyone expecting their "upgrade" to be "monotonic improvement" is going to be disappointed. It's a reboot, not an upgrade.

If when I move from Windows 7 to Windows 10 it gets called an upgrade; Windows Phone 8.1 to 10 is an upgrade. Since when does everything have to stay 90% familiar in order for the term upgrade to be used?

It's not about familiarity. It's about the functionality regressions caused by not having enough time to re-implement all the features in the rebooted apps.

 

[vnicolici]

team_negative1[/url]":16laua3s]

This is all well and good for phones that already have Windows 10 Mobile, but most don't. Many Windows Phone 8/8.1 devices will be upgradable to Windows 10 Mobile. But we don't know which and we don't know when. This upgrade will probably have the usual carrier interference and will probably require some level of OEM involvement, too. Microsoft originally planned to start rolling out Windows 10 Mobile to Phone 8.1 devices this month, but this has now slipped until next year. When, exactly, is anyone's guess.

since november, they have published a list of which phones are getting it..

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downloa ... p%24%24%24

[...]

Never (deviceUpgradeState = 3)

[...]

Go-W10
Griffe W1
GT-I8350, GT-I8350T, GT-S7530, GT-S7530E, GT-S7530L
Haden
Harley Davidson
HD7, HD7 T9292
Insignia 500 Win
IQ400W, IQ500W
Iris Win 1

[...]

Dammit. No W10M on the Harley Davidson

 

[psarhjinian]

BigGuy58[/url]":1ouf2c9r]What most reviewers, who look at the phone from a consumer standpoint, miss, is that MS has a major secret weapon for mobile. The ENTERPRISE Business Customer.

Microsoft hasn't cared about the enterprise business customer in a very long time. WP has poor MDM support, limited VPN, doesn't really support BYOD separation and is dicey on the management features it does support.

It's very much a SOHO offering

First:
What MS has that neither Apple or Android has is the robust and mature backend management and deployment tools that a large enterprise is looking for. This is part of their desktop lock-in.

If you are a large brokerage house, Bank, the Federal Government, Military or other business that needs to have a high level of security and manageability and monitoring of your user's devices MS has it for you.

A combination of Active Directory, (which many 3rd parties have done even more value add on top of), MS System Center, Windows Update (which an enterprise can have their own implementation of (WSUS)

Even if they did have that level of management on the client, it's too late. For a long time, WP was unmanageable, and commercial MDMs---which government and enterprise have already bought into---already offer these to iOS and (to a lesser degree) Android.

They do have deployment and management tools for Windows desktops, but those tools are largely irrelevant for mobile, where the device is off-LAN.

2nd:
Many enterprises want to deploy their own internal business applications, for desktops, tablets, and phones.
With the Universal Apps, now they will be able to do that to all 3 platforms, vs having to develop for the desktop, tablet, and separately for IOS or android.
As an enterprise they can mandate and supply what business phone their employees use.
They care about the security and cost efficiency of their organization, not if their are consumer applications.

This will create a base of buyers for the Windows phones, many times in bulk, that will drive hardware development, and this user base, will eventually drive the consumer applications

One, in this space, enterprise does not drive consumer development. At all. That may have worked in 1985 but the consumer market drives enterprise now. Microsoft totally missed that boat.

No, it really won't. Microsoft has really hoped that variations on the universal-app theme would take off before, and they never have. Back in the day it was because:

* The Windows desktop metaphor just sucked on small and/or touch screens
* The hardware is underpowered
* Connectivity was expensive, so you have to write a fat local app

Now it doesn't matter because most LOB apps are just HTML5 front-ends. Maintaining and iOS or Android client for a LOB app is actually pretty easy because all it needs to do is message-pass to a server. Heck, you can just target WebKit browsers and not even bother with an app at all.

And that's enterprise. Consumers just care about apps, and Microsoft is actually losing, not gaining, ground that way: lightweight desktop consumer apps are largely going to the web and heavy apps (Office, Photoshop) are increasingly getting silo'ed into specific use cases. Universal apps for Windows solves a problem that no one really has any more.

What you're saying would have worked in or around 2010, before Apple rewrote the rules on mobile and made client-side lock-in irrelevant.

Where Microsoft still has room to succeed is with Azure-backed development and hosting of services to mobile clients. But those clients won't be Windows phones and largely won't be Windows desktops. That ship sailed half a decade ago.

 

[psarhjinian]

mrnomnoms[/url]":32fgh58r]

nehinks[/url]":32fgh58r]

Stone[/url]":32fgh58r]I'd love to love Windows mobile, but it's always been several steps away from being functional enough for me to replace Android or iOS.

The app gap is easily the most frustrating thing about it. Native google apps are the thing I've missed most when using it.

I love the tile-based widget look of it. The low-spec Lumia 520 I used to own ran remarkably well despite its meager hardware. It felt like it had potential.

Unfortunately, Windows Mobile will die slowly, because of the adoption problem it looks like it will never overcome.

That's actually one of the more annoying things - how badly Google treats Windows mobile. They seem to have a vendetta against them much more than their actual competition iOS. At this point it seems kind of petty to be honest.

I like how solid their low/mid range phones have been - if only they were more supported. I was thinking of picking up a Tmobile 640 to see how good their coverage is around here, but they're not available any more.

It is difficult not to feel as though this is the universe kicking Microsoft in the proverbial after years of behaving like a pack of assholes and now they're experiencing what they put the industry through for almost two decades.

I have to sorta/kinda agree with Google's actions: I assume they're smart enough to have seen what happened to Apple (in the 80s), Netscape, Novell, Sun (Java), Wordperfect and others. Microsoft has been understandably hostile to anything that might break Windows and Office's dominance, and it's likely only because of a) regulatory pressure, b) arrogance, c) a perennial failure to recognize market shifts and d) Apple and Google's moving so very, very fast, that they're where they are today, and that Apple, Google (and Facebook and Amazon, while we're at it) managed to succeed.

* Microsoft has never, ever, been good at adapting to market shifts. They are good at coming in late and/or vapourware-chilling fast-movers, but when the environment changes they generally don't notice. They were late to the GUI market, late to the Internet, late to mobile, late to Cloud.

 

[under]

I've been using Windows phones since 3.0. Over that time I've found that the x.0 releases are always poorer experiences than the x.1 versions that follow.

Understanding that WM10 will see continuous updates, maybe we could say the 10.1 similar equivalent would be when "Redstone" is released - and when I would expect the OS to be much better.

 

[10One10]

I think Microsoft are heading in the right direction. The main thing with windows 10 on desktops is it's gotten people familiar with tiles and the Microsoft app ecosystem. Most people are fickle. Give them a top of the range, high quality build, swanky looking Surface phone and that's all they'll need to switch from iPhone or Android.

 

[MPerz]

Nick Walton[/url]":26h2da5h]I liked the review and agree that Windows 10 Mobile seems to be an upgrade to the platform. However, from an overall experience it feels, as the author said, messy and inconsistent. I think the key aspect of this is the conflict against the established design language of Windows Phone by the Hamburger menu and related fiddly UI adoptions from Android.

To me there are some significant backward steps in Windows 10 Mobile:
1. The OS has become messy, noisy, fiddly, and cluttered without significant improvements in utility, so that it actually feels slow, unfluid, less effortless to navigate - unclear. Just plain tiresome with tiny thin icons and text that forces the user to expend concentration to confirm what they are looking at before getting to do what it is they actually want to achieve.

Plus, the smaller icons have smaller haptic areas and are so damn fiddly that it's frustrating. I have a high level of dexterity for input systems and I get pissed off at the backwards step Microsoft has forced on us for the sake of "being more like Android and IOS. The OS feels just so much more in your face than Windows Phone 8, and that isn't a good thing. Windows Phone 8 enabled the user to just do it and got out of the way. Windows 10 Mobile doesn't, for the most part.

2. Two apps have taken a major step backwards in usability and clarity: the camera app, and Outlook Mobile. In fact, they are so bad and the great innovations found in their Windows Phone versions hacked out that it is like the old team was fired and IOS developers hired.

a) The Camera app in Windows Phone 8 was sublimely easy to use, which made it possible to use with one hand in some very awkward positions. This was primarily due to a very simple and innovative idea - one touch image capture. Touch the screen anywhere to focus, meter, and take the shot. You didn't have to press once on the screen then move your finger back toward your palm to then press the capture button. Just press the screen and get the shot. Fast and effortless, enabling you to focus on the scene rather than fiddly with the controls.

b) The Outlook app in Windows Phone 8 was a little bit simpler. Lets face it, not much has really changed in the feature list for the new Windows 10 Mobile Outlook app that makes such a big difference in the overall experience. However, something very significant has changed for the worse, which has made dealing with email so much more frustrating: Microsoft has removed all ability to open multiple emails and switch between them and the mail app to review, copy and paste across conversations and back through our email history.

The new client has taken a turn for the worse and copied IOS to restrict the user to a single open email. Need to check something or review something in another email? Forget it. This new email client is for casual email use only. Seems very, very bizarre when considering Continuum which has lofty aims of bringing a desktop experience to Mobile. Lets build a wonderfully capable and technologically superior OS but make email (a core proficiency for Microsoft) a lesser experience.

This is the same experience for the Desktop version.

These and other seemingly irrational UI and UX subversions don't make sense, until you factor in non-UI and non-UX influences, like monetisation. Why Microsoft would undermine the multi-tasking capability of a core product, like email, only makes sense if they plan on introducing paid subscription for Office Outlook to Windows 10 Desktop and Mobile for non-casual users, like me and most technology focused users.

However, this does not explain why Microsoft have destroyed the great experience of the camera app.

These two apps add to an overall unsatisfactory experience on Windows 10 Mobile. The dissatisfaction and frustration I have has not subsided as I grow more familiar with the new OS. This is because bad design choices (from IOS and Android) are displacing great design choices that were innovated from what seemed to truly be a first principles approach.

Windows 10 Mobile is full of analogies to Android and IOS and it detracts from the previously known joys of using Windows Phone 8.

I hadn't used the Windows 10 preview enough to notice the email multitasking regression, but reading your post made my heart sink. Sadly I don't think that the feature of having multiple messages open will ever return now that they've stripped out the native mail client and placed it in the app store instead. They would have to weave some black magic to get it to run in multiple instances. This is a colossal failure on Microsoft's part.

As for the camera ease of use, nothing can even compare to the dedicated camera button regardless of which camera app is used. I understand that they removed the hardware button requirement to enable OEMs to load Windows Phone onto existing devices more easily, but why Microsoft's own phones are shipping without it is truly baffling. Their accountant's might be able to show otherwise, but I can't imagine that the inclusion of a single button would eat away at their margins so much on any device priced above $75.

 

[Happysin]

As for camera buttons, I'm betting MS is using it as a differentiator for their top-end phones. Showcase the incredible camera on the 950/950xl with a dedicated camera button.

 

[authorandrew]

I'm a Windows fan with a 925, and hope springs eternal. Works for me now, app gap not a problem, just hope the platform sticks around and continues to improve. App development seems to be picking up in the last few months. We'll see.

 

[Loki1725]

"To get a healthy UWA ecosystem, Microsoft has to convince app developers that desktop users matter, that they deserve apps and not websites, and that their phone siblings are worth accommodating."

Ouch. So we're giving up on an open internet and the idea of being agnostic to OS/device? As a desktop linux user, the idea of having to load up 'apps' instead of websites sounds TERRIBLE. A huge step backwards in interoperabbility, and flexibility. I would rather web developers started making websites that were as full featured at apps.

The only way out of the walled garden is to start planting flowers outside.

 

[Solidstate89]

Microsoft is playing the long game here.

Are there really must-have Android/iOS apps that Windows Phone will never get?

Banking apps I think are the biggest thing that Windows Phone is missing. I have one for my Amex credit card, but that's it. All my friends on their Android phones and iPhones can all do mobile check deposits on their phones and I can't. There's a couple of U.S. banks that have apps, but they're few and far between.

It comes even more infuriating with larger regional banks like (for me) M&T. Even they support Android and iOS.

 

[jdale]

Solidstate89[/url]":21iw2w9i]

Microsoft is playing the long game here.

Are there really must-have Android/iOS apps that Windows Phone will never get?

Banking apps I think are the biggest thing that Windows Phone is missing. I have one for my Amex credit card, but that's it. All my friends on their Android phones and iPhones can all do mobile check deposits on their phones and I can't. There's a couple of U.S. banks that have apps, but they're few and far between.

It comes even more infuriating with larger regional banks like (for me) M&T. Even they support Android and iOS.

It is an annoying absence, but given the state of smartphone security I'm not convinced that online banking from a phone is a good idea. Have any of those apps gone through independent security audits?

 

[winphoneisamazing]

what is called customization on android on windows phone becomes "clutter", no matter how much people want windows mobile to collapse it won't on its own it will always have users unless Microsoft decides to end it and with the universal platform windows is the most widely available OS its on my XBox and its amazing, its on my phone,on my surface book,on my surface tab, on my desktop and the integration is seamless, and in case you've been away apps have been dropping on a much faster rate considering its the holidays and all , the app gap is a matter of perspective if you rely on google apps heavily you could say that but you can still use a windows phone, there are less than 100 truly remarkable apps but not necessarily must have apps that once they arrive on the platform no one will care about the so called app gap, you hear someone who barely installs 30 apps on their phone speaking about the app gap on windows mobile,really? i remember 2008 when Steve Jobs announced they had 500 apps on the IOS store now they have over 1.1m ,no app store started at the top not even the app filled play store lets just hope Microsoft don't shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[bittermann]

jdale[/url]":15uhugc0]

Solidstate89[/url]":15uhugc0]

Microsoft is playing the long game here.

Are there really must-have Android/iOS apps that Windows Phone will never get?

Banking apps I think are the biggest thing that Windows Phone is missing. I have one for my Amex credit card, but that's it. All my friends on their Android phones and iPhones can all do mobile check deposits on their phones and I can't. There's a couple of U.S. banks that have apps, but they're few and far between.

It comes even more infuriating with larger regional banks like (for me) M&T. Even they support Android and iOS.

It is an annoying absence, but given the state of smartphone security I'm not convinced that online banking from a phone is a good idea. Have any of those apps gone through independent security audits?

I even cringe at just the thought of using one of those online banking apps on my phone. I've starting seeing just as many security "hole" related articles on mobile OS's as desktops now.

 

[Griffinhart]

Hydrargyrum[/url]":kr5yj9b8]

Windowed apps don't make sense on tiny mobile screens, in my opinion. You need a reasonable sized monitor for arbitrary-size windowing to be really useful, and you need access to high-precision input hardware to manipulate windows. I think tiled views (screen splitting) are the correct way to do multi-tasking on small screens and touch devices.

That's the point of Continuum. Single screen apps are fine on a phone screen, but Continuum connects my 1080p 24" monitor. Here is where it not only makes sense, but really is needed.

I'm also ok with not using the desktop as the file manager. I don't even think that access to the root underlying OS file system (Program Files, Windows, etc) should be necessary for non-developers. Just give the users some kind of folder-based file system which can be used to organise files according to the user's preferred scheme, rather than tying file storage to separate buckets inside each app. The user file manager should also have decent APIs for the various cloud synch/storage services to integrate in a consistent, centralised way. But file management is a major part of the functionality of any OS with pretensions to productivity - consider the constant complaints about Finder in OS X reviews as evidence of this.

The desktop isn't a part of the "system files" It's just a workspace/folder in the user profile. It's really a workflow space. A lot of people just use it as a place to pin shortcuts, but It really is meant to be a metaphor for a physical desktop. I store my currently active files on it while I am working on them and them move or remove them when they are no longer what I am working on.

 

[Griffinhart]

bittermann[/url]":e87nq8d2]

jdale[/url]":e87nq8d2]

Solidstate89[/url]":e87nq8d2]

Microsoft is playing the long game here.

Are there really must-have Android/iOS apps that Windows Phone will never get?

Banking apps I think are the biggest thing that Windows Phone is missing. I have one for my Amex credit card, but that's it. All my friends on their Android phones and iPhones can all do mobile check deposits on their phones and I can't. There's a couple of U.S. banks that have apps, but they're few and far between.

It comes even more infuriating with larger regional banks like (for me) M&T. Even they support Android and iOS.

It is an annoying absence, but given the state of smartphone security I'm not convinced that online banking from a phone is a good idea. Have any of those apps gone through independent security audits?

I even cringe at just the thought of using one of those online banking apps on my phone. I've starting seeing just as many security "hole" related articles on mobile OS's as desktops now.

I don't use them either, which makes the app gap a little more tolerable. I just do not see a need to access my baking info on the phone. I do that on my PC at home when I am managing my finances.

 

[SraCet]

bittermann[/url]":30eg2fbp]

jdale[/url]":30eg2fbp]

Solidstate89[/url]":30eg2fbp]

Microsoft is playing the long game here.

Are there really must-have Android/iOS apps that Windows Phone will never get?

Banking apps I think are the biggest thing that Windows Phone is missing. I have one for my Amex credit card, but that's it. All my friends on their Android phones and iPhones can all do mobile check deposits on their phones and I can't. There's a couple of U.S. banks that have apps, but they're few and far between.

It comes even more infuriating with larger regional banks like (for me) M&T. Even they support Android and iOS.

It is an annoying absence, but given the state of smartphone security I'm not convinced that online banking from a phone is a good idea. Have any of those apps gone through independent security audits?

I even cringe at just the thought of using one of those online banking apps on my phone. I've starting seeing just as many security "hole" related articles on mobile OS's as desktops now.

You mean Android... I have yet to see a security problem with iOS that would make me nervous about using banking apps. With the fingerprint sensor and sandboxing, I'm happy to put all my sensitive personal information on my phone.

 

[kehcorpz]

I hope I'm not alone but I would love an Arstechnica full featured app with forums built right in as a windows 10 UWP app. A great UI could make it a must have.

 

[moritzbe]

Updates without carrier interference: Busted.

- "we have started rolling out a new firmware update for Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL: 01078.00027.15506.020xx"
- "Availability of the update may depend on your network service provider."

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobi ... 9cc?auth=1

Reminds me of the OneDrive "unlimited storage" that never materialized ...

Recommendation: Microsoft should call this "unlimited upgrades" to continue the new tradition of using unlimited as a synonym for imaginary.

 

[HungryBadger]

moritzbe[/url]":2ft4m3u3]Updates without carrier interference: Busted.

- "we have started rolling out a new firmware update for Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL: 01078.00027.15506.020xx"
- "Availability of the update may depend on your network service provider."

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobi ... 9cc?auth=1

Reminds me of the OneDrive "unlimited storage" that never materialized ...

Recommendation: Microsoft should call this "unlimited upgrades" to continue the new tradition of using unlimited as a synonym for imaginary.

Firmware is probably the only thing which is low level enough that it potentially affects the cellular stack and thus requires the network provider to recertify. As long as all normal updates, in particular security fixes, are delivered without intervention then it's still a long way ahead of Android.

 

[DrPizza]

moritzbe[/url]":h1pty0oe]Updates without carrier interference: Busted.

- "we have started rolling out a new firmware update for Lumia 950 and Lumia 950 XL: 01078.00027.15506.020xx"
- "Availability of the update may depend on your network service provider."

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mobi ... 9cc?auth=1

Reminds me of the OneDrive "unlimited storage" that never materialized ...

Recommendation: Microsoft should call this "unlimited upgrades" to continue the new tradition of using unlimited as a synonym for imaginary.

This is believed to be a radio update that modifies the radio firmware, not an operating system update.