Talk:Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)

So how are we handling Headmasters-as-a-sub-frnachise? Or, more specificlaly, characters unique to it? There's not many, but they exist. --M Sipher 01:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Would anybody mind terribly if I reinstated the "ass" where it says how Sixshot is a "bad***"? Thew 12:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's probably needed. I spent a few minutes looking for a footnote until I realised those asterisks didn't actually signify one. Jeep! 18:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Origin of the dub

"Though these episodes never aired in the United States, a version was dubbed into English overseas. Variously referred to as 'the Singapore dub' or 'the Star TV dub' (though in fact originating from RTM in Malaysia)"

Source for the last bit?--Nevermore 22:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I was told of this by Jon Talpur, a chap who knows of that sort of thing. Couldn't say where HE knows it from, though, but a quick glance at ATT notes that this nugget goes back at least five years, with the specific note that they aired on that channel with their original openings and closing, rather than the Victory title dealie. - Chris McFeely 22:56, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Calling it the "RTM dub" originates from the fan Ratbat, who I was told did the proper research. --ItsWalky 23:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Episode Numbers for Dub Quotes?

As a random owner of the recent DVD release in the UK which has the dub available on it, I would like to ask the following. Can someone put which Episode each of those hilarious dub quotes are from? As I would seriously like to hear them, but watching the entire series all over again would be painful (it was funny the first time round, but pretty long, and also very bad)? I'm specially interested in the Zarak one at the end, since it seems to contradict the character renaming.... Thanks! Shadow Mask Prime 12:49, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Well the Zarak quote can be found in Life Can Be Sacrificed for Peace on Earth according to the Omni Productions page. Its years since I've seen it though so I can't verify that. - Omnisvalidus 12:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Page move

Ugh... Do we really want to be putting stuff like "the" in titles of franchises, cartoons, etc.? For some reason that really bugs me. I like the idea of making an epiosde or comic issue title exact, including punctuation and such, but for something like this I really think the shorter and very easy to remember "Headmasters (cartoon)" is preferable. I similarly prefer Masterforce and its stuff to be where they are now, just at "Masterforce", without a "Super-God" or "Chojin". For example, if we insist on being precise about titles of franchises and TV shows, we have to change Beast Machines to Beast Machines: Transformers, include "super life-form" in most of the Japanese titles, decide arbitrarily where to put colons, etc.. It is a huge can of worms that I think we should just avoid by using simple, easily-understood names. The help pages currently say that franchise and series articles should be written "without redundancies". To me, that includes the word "the". --Steve-o 21:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to say that in the interests of accuracy, I'd really like to see "The Headmasters" and "Super-God Masterforce" in use. "Transformers", I can't say I'm bothered about, as it's decidedly on the redundant side, given where we are. In these two particular cases, though, all I can see it as is propogating ignorance. Very few people actually realise that Headmasters is called The Headmasters - it's logo is even specially designed around the fact that it's a two-worder, with a little star between the "the" and "Headmasters." And yeah, okay, that's only a "the," so I can see how it seems a bit pointless, but... Super-God Masterforce is the name of the show. That's like... calling "Desperate Housewives" just "Housewives."

(Oh, and as a sidebar, HM, MF and Zone all omit the "Super-robot-life" bit. Only the dub of the US show and Victory include that tag.) - Chris McFeely 21:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Chris. The "Housewives" comparison is apt. -Rotty 23:55, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

We're talking about using the leading The on the cartoon pages, not the franchise pages, right? I'm down with that. If we use The in comic book stories that start with it-- dude,, it's the actual title of the series.

The franchise pages, OTOH, are somethign we made to guide people. -Derik 00:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Chris. Personally, I'd have liked it to be "Transformers: The Headmasters", but removing words from the subtitle (for lack of a better term) has the same logic as turning "Beast Wars" into "Wars". The only difference is that "Headmasters" and "Masterforce" are more unique words than "Wars". Interrobang 21:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I, too, agree with Chris.

Incidentally, I think this logic should also apply to "The Fallen" and "The One," which are also more titles than names. Just thought I'd throw that out there. - Jackpot 21:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Spoilerz

FYI: There are quite a few spoilery items in the "Notes" sections of the episode articles. I don't know if this is OK or not, but it makes it risky to read the articles alongside watching the show for the first time. - Starfield 11:54, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Same thing goes for every show we cover--just look at Sari Sumdac. Our spoiler period for broadcast media is 1 week, not 21 years. --Thylacine 2000 12:01, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

That is a character article. I don't know that episode or issue articles should routinely spoil future episodes/issues. - Starfield 12:06, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

I don't recall seeing anything too spoilery anyway, other than some "this thing will be explained in this episode" type stuff. -Mazenoise 12:09, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

I don't know of any specific existing instances, but I actually like the idea of spoilers in the Notes. I think it's valuable to document exactly when and how plot points get resolved. That having been said, I also think Starfield has a point. If I were watching a series for the first time, it would be hard to resist looking at the wiki as I went along, but I'd prefer to be able to preserve any suspense that I could. So how about we make a section called "Future episodes" or something, and put all such notes there? - Jackpot 12:51, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

The value of "protecting" hypothetical first-time viewers of an old show is far outweighed by the ability to actually discuss the show's plot as a whole, rather than in bits and pieces. Can you imagine the Star Wars wiki trying to spoiler protect the identity of Darth Vader? -- Repowers 15:47, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

"This is probably the most important evolution of the Headmasters' powering-up abilities, as it is this specific version of the formation that will prove key in the final episode of the series." Oh, OK, thanks. Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't write that on the episode 24 out of 35 page. It belongs on the Head Formation page, sure. BTW, I'm not hypothetical. I've never sat down and watched the whole thing before. Just sayin'. - Starfield 16:20, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Okay, the example you gave is a good example of notes who NEVER should be made.Wile forshadowing is okay in older shows, it is realy bad to actualy state how the show wil end halfway into it. I think we sould weed those out of the articles.--Sunjumper 16:30, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

As the guy responsible for this, I'm sticking to my guns. I am all for episode articles including call-forwards to later episodes, be they shows old or new, once they've aired. In this case, the show's twenty-two years old - I'm sure if we look, there are plenty of G1 and Beast Era episode articles that make references to future episodes, because they're written in retrospect. In the cited example, I made a point when I was writing the articles of charting the (ridiculous) conceptual evolution of the Head Formation in a literal, out-of-universe way. We're not in the business of shielding readers from decades-old spoilers - we're trying to spread information. - Chris McFeely 18:49, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Besides, the statue of limitation on spoilers for these guys has already more than expired (in a sense). --Lonegamer78 19:25, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

"we're trying to spread information". Thiiiiiiiiiiis. —Interrobang 20:22, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

This has been released in the US now, correct? If so, the page should reflect that. 64.134.169.139 16:53, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

So, who's gonna take on the job of adding the US home video release to every single episode page? Takeshi357 04:01, 18 May 2013 (EDT)

Do we have any idea who composed the score for this or any of the japanese g1 series? Spork (talk) 16:00, 10 August 2015 (EDT)

Criticism

This section could either use a rewrite or just straight up removing because right now, it's super bash-y. Not that Headmasters is great, because it isn't, or even good. It sits somewhere between DAF and terrible, with little to nothing to say in its defence, but all the same... Smasher (talk) 11:18, 31 July 2021 (EDT)

"Based on unmade scripts for the American series"

The claim that the series' earliest episodes were based on unmade scripts for the US series, while fitting with the inescapable simlarities with "The Rebirth", doesn't in fact seem to actually appear anywhere in the booklet included with the 2002 Pioneer DVD release of Headmasters, contrary to belief, at least as far as I have been able to find.

Masumi Kaneda's memories on his original draft storyline for the series, as printed in the DVD booklet, suggest instead that all he received were product samples and the US 1987 catalog (OCR-d from booklet):

「ザ☆ヘッドマスターズ」は1986年の暮れにタカラの新井 隆士氏(故人。 トランスフォーマー最大の功労者である)に呼ばれ、一部の商品見本と米版のカタログ、 資料だけを参考に 全キャラクターの設定とストーリーの原案を依頼された。

Likewise, e-HOBBY writer Naoto Sakai, in his overview on the Headmasters animated series' history in another section of the booklet, states that Masumi Kaneda came up with the storyline draft for the series. No mention of anything being based on scripts from the US:

番組の原案には、 雑誌「テレビマガジン(講談社)」で「TF」シリーズの記事/漫 画原作を務めた金田益実氏があたり、 同様にキャラクターデザ インは同誌で「TF」の漫画を執筆していたまがみばん氏が担当。

I guess it's possible that somewhere included along with the product samples and US catalog might have been some of the shared storyline concepts that also ended up in "The Rebirth", but there's nothing I was able to find in the Pioneer DVD booklet supporting this notion. I certainly couldn't find anything stating that any story ideas were provided by Marvel Productions or Sunbow.

What is stated is that Takara were aware in late 1986 that there wouldn't be a fourth season of the Marvel/Sunbow series, and that, by December 1986, they engaged directly with Toei to produce a domestic series (more OCR):

「2010」 が終了するとわ かったタカラ側は、 86年後半の時点で同作品に続く、日本の 購買者へ向けたTVアニメ新シリーズの企画に取り組むことと なる。 ヘッドマスターを主力アイテムに 迎え、番組が製作タカラが用意した87年用販売計画の元、86年の12月中旬 の時点で新TVアニメの制作は前2作と同様に東映動画が行なうと決定。

If it was already known there wouldn't be a full fourth season of the US series by the end of 1986, this seems way too early to incorporate anything that might have been originally intended for "The Rebirth", the scripts for which were likely drafted months afterwards, possibly as late as July 1987 based on similar turnaround times for season 3 episodes going from script-to-screen.

Acknowledged elsewhere in the booklet, and already well-known, is that some of the Headmasters' character designs were repurposed from Marvel Productions' character designs that first appeared in the animated segments for the 1987 US commercials, which were developed across the latter part of 1986. Assuming it was put out at the same time as the first issue was published, the Headmasters Marvel comic commercial would have first aired in March 1987, for instance, while Toei's Headmasters was still in development.

Unless something's been missed, this could be a case of a "Spengler-ism" that's been repeated as fact over the years. In fairness to Spengs, this didn't originate with him; the earliest reference I can find was this ATT post from 2004 (back when it was harder to fact-check this stuff) from Jordan L. Derber (aka "Buster Darkwings") where he stated that "According to the text in the booklet that came with The Headmasters DVD box, the early HM eps were based on scripts it had already recieved from Marvel/Sunbow for an aborted 4th season".

Not saying it isn't true, but as far as the Headmasters DVD booklet is concerned, it really looks like there's nothing to back it up. Still, it's such a specific claim that this fact might have been stated elsewhere, possibly in the Planet of Cybertron Guide 4 booklet that came with the 1996 Headmasters LD set, but I don't have a copy of this to check. Jon T (talk) 10:43, 10 June 2023 (EDT)

Possibly what Kaneda might have been referencing was Bob Budiansky's 10-page treatment for the Marvel Comics miniseries. That was definitely provided to Sunbow staff and presumably forwarded to David Wise. A copy of the treatment's second revision (Dated June 4th, 1986) was found in Flint Dille's Transformers character binder, which was last updated December 3rd, 1986. Budiansky has included the treatment in the slideshow he takes to conventions for years. Greebtron (talk) 12:07, 10 June 2023 (EDT)